Posts by Indian Larry

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

Indian Larry

All of these are good points. I have thought and thought about it. I have tried many of them. I think it comes down to this in her case. Willful ignorance. She has heard the facts, she just refuses to believe them. She won't read C of C or anything she feels is apostate. She is willfully ignorant. That is it.

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

Indian Larry

I have been offline for a while. Thanks so much for the responses everyone.

Phizzy> I tried 607. It is like talking to a wall. “God has to have an organization, if it is not the WT then who is it?”

Smiddy> I tried all the old Russell and Rutherford stuff. She just puts it all off to “new light”

Leolala> The only thing so far that seems to have got through to her at all is the Conti trial and the UN/NGO mess. However she puts each off to individuals. Cognative dissonance.

DarioKehl> I will check out the YouTube channel you mentioned. - Thanks

Fistandantillus> I tried the canabalism idea. She can see it was wrong. She says those responsible will have to answer, but she can not see a link to today.

Designs> Socially outside of the org? Nothing. Her entire family is in the “truth” and they are a very close family. Mine is as well (I am 3rd gen). I have not gone to meetings for several years and everyone still treats me well.

FW Franz> I have tried the “false prophet” tact. She just puts it off as “old light”, if I get to close to actually getting through to her she starts crying and goes into another room. She just can’t/won’t face it.

Searcher> I made a note of Rev 20:12. I will research that later this evening

Dozy> Tried telling her about the change re generation and the prophecy in the masthead. No go. New light.

Rather be in Hades> I actually got her to listen to a little of the Walsh trial on the audio version of C of C.

Brinjen> 1975 was not so bad to her. That is the year her Mom was baptized.

Clarity> Rutherford his cars, his houses, the whiskey, all old news to her.

Blondie> I have used some of that info and it did help some. Not enough though.

End of Mysteries > I had read that post earlier. It has some good points but it may be too “deep” for her

Jaime de Aragon > Russell stuff does not phase her at all. Old history/new light

MC Rubber Mallet> Good points - Thanks

DesirousOfChange > This is the kind of stuff I am looking for. Clear examples of misquotes or taking something out of context that can not be a mistake but that shows that they do INTENTIONALLY mislead the members. I did make a little ground with her on some of the quotes about earthquakes. She just can not believe that the GB would ever try to intentionally mislead the flock.

Scenic Viewer> Thanks for those examples! I had never scene that particular one before. I will try that!

00Dad> Yes. JWFacts if a great site. I have found it tremendously helpful. I like the way he presents things. No vitriol, just facts.

I should have said earlier however that she found a book I had that was entitled “Questions to ask JW’s” I had put the dust jacket from another non related book on that one to keep it off of her radar. Unfortunately she found it and now anything I say she thinks is coming from that book, I have to have something that I can point to in either the mainstream news or the publications from the pas 20 years. Any other sites, stuff from the past, all that just bounces off of her like she is Superman. I am looking for kryptonite.

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

Indian Larry

Leola, thank you for the comment. I make special notice of your comments because they are usually very very well researched and thought out. You don't resort to random name calling and ranting, just simpe (AND EFFECTIVE) research. I appreciate that.

For some background. My wife does wonder some about the UN thing, the Candise Conti thing. and possibly about false prophecy. In general though her attitude is that the society is the FDS and that is the end of it. Her mother became a witness when she was 7 yrs. old. She is very very close to her sister and brother (both active JW's) she his also very very close to her parents. Her mom is a witness but her father is not. He does attend on Sunday's, but he is not baptised and he still smokes. So, by Witness standards he is bird feed. It does not matter that he is a really good person, that he really does not understand the theological issues. According to them the simple fact is that is not baptized (in the org) and therefore will dies at armageddon.

Anyway, what I am looking for is simple CLEAR examples of where the society has lied to it's member. That is the first step on the stairway to freeing her.

131

so oompa got df'd this week...

by oompa in

jw
friends

no call to invite me to a committee meeting...no notification of deciding i should be df'd....no telling my jw wife of the announcement...not a chance to appeal what i did not even know what was going on...my mini-serve son is devasted....he even researched it....told me to go to page 153-154 of the od book...never heard of it but it is a green hardback given to all who are to be baptized.

wow...the elders broke every rule in this book as to my case.... i have no respect for these men that can take away your jw family without even telling you they are going to.

my jw son has now begged me to meet with my committee...even though there is prob zero chance they can reverse the decision...that chance is from when they let you know...and you have to appeal by letter within 7 days (i cant make this stuff up!!

Indian Larry

I did not personally know Eric, but we had a lot in common. We were both small business owners, we both see the WTBTS for what it is. We both live in NC. We both work with other JW's. We both ride motorcycles. We both have seriously considered suicide. Unfortunately for Eric he was "caught" by the idots in his congregation for his using "fractions" of blood. That cost him most of his friends and family. I (so far at least) have managed to stay clear of the elders althought my wife is about to drop me. It sucks. I still actually do care about God and Jesus. I just want to follow what I honesty feel is the truth. The WTBTS does not make it easy. Sometimes I wonder if the routh Eric took is not the best one.

I am riding the BRP this weekend to see the fall colors. My bike is in the shop so I am riding a friends Hayabusa. I will keep Eric in mind as I twist the throttle this weekened.

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

Indian Larry

Please post any examples of CLEAR CUT Watchtower Deception. My wife does not believe that the Watchtower would PURPOSELY decieve her. I need CLEARCUT examples of deception of by the WTBTS. This could be the thing that opens up her eyes. I am going to look up all quotes on the WT CD and put them in a spreadsheet. Please submit ANY examples that show CLEARLY to a totally blind WTBTS zombie how she has been lied to. Misquotes are welcome as well.

Please HELP! If it makes you feel better, feel free to count the time

630

SAD news about OOMPA......

by redredrose in

jw
friends

our friend, oompa, has passed away.

just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.

it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.

Indian Larry

This has affected me deeply. I did not know Eric, however I did follow his posts for two reasons. One of my first posts he replied back to me in an encouraging manner (I can't remember exactly what it was) but I did note his name in a good way, I also noted his avatar. Since I am a Gene Wilder fan that stuck in my memory. The other reason was that he lived in North Carolina. I too live in NC. I had determined from some of his posts that he lived in the Greensboro/Kernersville/Winston area and I have a lot of witness "friends" in that area. I wondered if I knew him, turns out I did not.

Either way it is very sad what he was driven to. I too have contemplated that in the past, fighting the lies of the organization and the mental hold it has on ones family is like fighting city hall . . . you just can't win. I still love Jehovah, and Jesus but I hate those that use their name to ruin peoples lives. Whoever wrote that the GB is responcible for this is right. They are.

The other ones that are responsible are those who helped the GB. Seven men in NY can not enforce shunning or anything else without help from their followers. Much as the average German enabled Hitler so too the average JW enables the GB. I do beleive they are on the way down, I just hope I live long enough to either see them exposed to thier followers for what they are or at least for my wife to see TTATT.

Anyway, if any of Eric's family are reading this. Yes, some on this site no longer believe in God at all. So what. Can you blame them, after the mental abuse piled on by those who say they represent God. I don't. Others (like myself) have managed to separate the BORG from God and struggle to maintain faith. But when someone who has as good of a heart as Eric is driven to do what he did, I must admit it is hard.

I told my wife about Eric this morning. Her answer was "We don't know Jehovah's heart, maybe he will be resureccted" I practically blew my top. Maybe he will be ressurected???!!! How about it did not need to happen in the first place!!! How about maybe Jehovah should strike the elders who DF'd him in absentia with lightning? Good grief.

31

Lurkers - PLEASE watch this excellent video on 1914 that uses only Watchtower quotes!

by cedars in

this is a truly awesome video, with a lovely overall presentation, that uses watchtower literature to explain how the expectations of russell and his followers regarding 1914 differ significantly from what is portrayed in modern publications.. if you're visiting this forum for the first time, please watch it!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zap6keflhpe.

cedars.

Indian Larry

Whoosier> Good points about the Sparlock stuff and the masturbation video. They are funny but this video has more to it. If you like that type of information without all the smart remarks, just straight and presented fairly not dripping with hatred, if you have not checked out JWFacts.com yet, do so. I think you will like it.

Also if you are not ready to give up on religion all together but just question the WTBTS I reccomend listening to some podcasts. A couple I reccomend are Unbelievable and Truth Matters. You can find them on the itunes store under podcasts.

207

Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Recovery in

let's assume, as most of you probably believe, that the anointed christians are not the fds.

if the anointed are not the fds, who are?.

Indian Larry

You said: Indian Larry said: Explain to me why the FDS directly claims Jehovah lied in Jeremiah 25:12 - I have never read an article where it was stated that Jehovah lied about a scripture.

That is true. I misspoke when I wrote the question. It would be better phrased this way:

Explain to me why the FDS does not agree with when the 70 years ended. Jehovah was clear that it had to be COMPLETE BEFORE he called into account Nebuchadezzar. How can the slave say it ended two years after Nebuchadnezzar died if the dead are conscience of "nothing at all"?

207

Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Recovery in

let's assume, as most of you probably believe, that the anointed christians are not the fds.

if the anointed are not the fds, who are?.

Indian Larry

Still at work. Have not had time to read up on Nathan yet. However I do have one simple question.

Who do you believe is the faithful and discrete slave?

I assume from your line of reasoning you believe what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, is that correct?

207

Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Recovery in

let's assume, as most of you probably believe, that the anointed christians are not the fds.

if the anointed are not the fds, who are?.

Indian Larry

Ok. Sorry about early posting. Anyway, you posted:

Tell me why I should ignore Jesus's command at Luke 21:8. I am not telling you to ignore Jesus' command. I am telling to examine the subject in context. By this logic, if we were first century Christians we should not have listened to the apostles since they claimed to have authority from Christ himself. It is a relative command (to the context), not a definite one.

My answer is: Luke 21:8 says :He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.

You can not compare the “slave” to the apostles. The apostles had evidence of holy spirit. They could heal, raise people from the dead etc. That is evidence.

On the other hand the evidence that the FDS is actually who they say they are is non-existent. Remember Deuteronomy 18:20-23, this is how Jehovah tells us to determine if a prophet is true or not. The FDS fails that test. And yes, it is true they do have many quotes in writing where they claim that they are not prophets, but you and I both know I can find quotes where they compare themselves to Jeremiah and Ezekiel, even quotes where they come right out and say they are prophets.

Battling quotes leads to nowhere though. The WTBTS claims to be God’s only “spirit directed” organization. How can you be spirit directed and not inspired. They want to have it both ways. They want to claim to be “God’s sole channel of communication” and at the same time say they what they are speaking is not from God. Give me a break.

As far as Nathan, as I said earlier I am open minded and I will read those passages in the bible tonight with an open mind and see if there is indeed a parallel.

As far as Mark 13:31, did not CT Russel and JF Rutherford both say that Jesus was present in 1874? Yes they did. How does Jesus say to respond to teachings like that which are not true? He says “do not believe it”. You know what? That is good enough for me. Are you saying that we should do other than what Jesus clearly says to do?

I am at work right now gotta run, but I will read the section about Nathan and post later.